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Endeavour Starfleet
874
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Posted - 2013.06.16 19:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Going to quote myself from the other topic as it is relevant.
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:And it starts. Again I hope those who supported this mockery in the republic are happy. As the cost of added isolation and the label as a rouge nation has done nothing to aid you and has given the Amarr more power over your future than they could ever have dreamed. It is one thing to have alienated your greatest ally and then invade while feeling free to kill federation military in federation space. But it is quite another to do it after we are learning that our Caldari brothers are willing to work with us and not follow the crazed Heth off the cliff.
Who will stand with the Republic after this?
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Endeavour Starfleet
878
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Posted - 2013.06.17 11:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Republic apologists love to completely ignore the fact that the Federation had permission to enter Amarr space to capture that scumbag. And yes what we did to him was barbaric and likely will never be repeated.
Compared to the Republic killing Federation military on a scale the madman could only dream of doing, Treating allied sovereignty as optional, and then when the we ATTEMPT to put it past us by extraditing the criminal in good faith you spit on our judicial system with this sham of an outcome with no opportunity for him to serve his sentence for those he killed in the Federation.
Nope the people of the Federation will not "let it go" We already spared the Republic by not going to war once. They must know that the people of the Federation are not above going to war against who we once actually were convinced as allies. |
Endeavour Starfleet
880
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Posted - 2013.06.17 12:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Actually war is quite an option. And yet again another sweeping under the rug of the thousands of federation military who died from a REPUBLIC invasion eh? Just what I expect from Republic apologists.
War was an option the moment those Dreads jumped in. War was even more of an option the moment they opened fire on the Federation. War was then even more of an option when the Federation BEGGED them to stop and return to Republic space.
The Republic has proven that they can't be trusted. If war or ending our efforts to divert the Amarr from the Republic is needed it needs to be known that the Federation will be willing to do so to protect its sovereignty against a rouge nation. |
Endeavour Starfleet
880
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Posted - 2013.06.17 12:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
iyammarrok wrote:Funny, I did not mention Coelile at all.
The mistakes of that day have been decried from both sides as unrepeatable, yet you are saying that we should lose tens of thousands more lives, or give up the freedom of an entire people for what exactly?
Petty vengeance? That will not undo the mistake that was made.
Moving on will at least allow them to rest and does not play into the hands of the terrorist who started it all.
That said, having looked at your CONCORD profile, you would appear to be in favour of criminal acts.
let me be a little clearer...
you say that the federation should invade the republic, in an act born of a wish for vengeance.
because : the republic invaded the federation, in an act born of a wish for vengeance.
but your wish is 'far' more justifiable than theirs. Hypocrite.
Invading the Republic would not be an act of vengeance. But a measure meant to prove to the cluster that the federation treats its sovereignty very seriously. Seriously enough that the government attempted to show patience by extraditing the criminal in good faith. Now that the Republic spat in the face of that. Additional measures up to and including invasion my be needed to show that invading the Federation and killing federation navy will not be ignored. It is a sad day to note that the Amarr were far more willing to mend things after the failed heir invasion than the far weaker Republic.
Don't get me wrong. I do not wish to see Republic Citizens killed. Yet they may be better off not having a government that simply refuses to respect the sovereignty of its allies. |
Endeavour Starfleet
880
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Posted - 2013.06.17 13:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Amarr and Caldari invasions were similar as they were pushed by insane people. The Amarr let the federation go into their territory to capture a scumbag as a way to mend things broken by an insane heir. The Caldari came to the table and worked out an agreement for their homeland that benefited both nations after Heth was virtually removed from his ability to stop such.
And for what do we get for trying to mend ties with the Republic? Spitting on our systems and good faith with a sham of a trial.
Atleast with the Caldari our brothers are slowly making attempts to end the hate that has divided us for so long. |
Endeavour Starfleet
881
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Posted - 2013.06.17 17:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Niko medes wrote:The man killed a chieftain in a Minmatar cultural festival, and lest we forget he killed numerous others as well. Let the Minmatar have their justice. It boggles my mind sometimes why my own kind whine over things like this.
"Justice is the only thing that was served here. To extend this trial for the sake of allowing the accused to offer an ineffective defense would have made it a mockery."
Well said Shakor, the man had his chance.. no need to let the man live any longer for his atrocities.
So to "Let them have their justice" We just have to forget about the fact that the Federation was INVADED and thousands of Federation Navy personnel killed. Have their justice to continue to insult Federation legal systems trying and sentencing a man who killed federation citizens.
So the rouge Republic gets to have its justice and screw everyone who died by their hand to get it and screw their allies is that correct?
No. There must be a response to this. |
Endeavour Starfleet
881
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Posted - 2013.06.17 17:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Steffanie Saissore wrote:What has been done, has been done and we can agree or disagree with the handling of the situation till we're a blue in the face.
What saddens me the most is, the more this conversation continues, the more attention is given to a terrorist and his action than to the unfortunate victims, survivors, and their families.
Both sides, Republic and Federation, have, by all estimates, done a poor job of handling the situation from the start. Instead of crying foul and pointing fingers, let us take a moment to learn from the mistakes made and move forward.
Remember the fallen.
The Federation did not invade their allies and kill their military. Please do not compare the response of the Federation which by all estimates have been amazingly patient to that of the savagery of the Republic that now considers their allies sovereignty optional.
This conversation will continue and hopefully the Federation will take action against our so called "Friends" because it must. |
Endeavour Starfleet
881
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Posted - 2013.06.17 17:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Funny that you consider the Federation that has done so much to help the people of the Republic a "Poisonous ally" I doubt that any other group would have taken an invasion and killing of its military as some kind of misunderstanding that could be potentially solved by giving the invaders what they want later on. |
Endeavour Starfleet
882
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Posted - 2013.06.17 18:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
We can't have allies who consider our sov to be optional. War should be on the table even if it ends up being a limited counter-attack. If we outright say "Nope we love our allies and would never do anything to respond to them invading us and killing us" They will have zero reason to take anything else we do seriously and will feel free to kill more when it suits their fancy. Even tho they claim their fight is with the holders.
There are other, better ways to get a proper response from them. Yet if they don't respond to them war may be the only way to preserve Federation sov and to show that being an ally comes with responsibility. |
Endeavour Starfleet
882
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Posted - 2013.06.17 19:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
We don't have to turn anyone. They already are killing our people. |
Endeavour Starfleet
882
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Posted - 2013.06.17 19:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Targeting military production would be a better response than taking territory in my opinion. Weaken them and once the Amarr press they will beg to come to the table.
It will show the entire cluster that once other options are exhausted (This assumes we cut ties first without result from them) We WILL fight back.
Then again it likely will not come to that. If we simply end our alliance and let the Amarr press even that advantage they will come to the table. Then after they agree to full reparations to the federation families that suffer without their loved ones due to the attack and apologize for betraying our good will by spitting on our judicial system we can THINK about restarting the alliance. |
Endeavour Starfleet
884
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Posted - 2013.06.18 01:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am glad I am not the only one that was rechecking the fluid routers when I actually heard "unfortunate misunderstanding" coming from that Republic apologist.
If the battle was SOMEHOW a misunderstanding the Republic would not have allowed a verdict later on that spit in the face of Federation good will.
It was not a misunderstanding at all. |
Endeavour Starfleet
884
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Posted - 2013.06.18 03:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vikarion wrote:Niko medes wrote:We are a culture that isn't of vengeance or revenge. Millions of dead Caldari over the last three hundred years might take exception to that. Oh, and you don't even need a good reason - the Gallente started trying to starve the Caldari on Caldari Prime before Nouvelle Rouvenor even occurred. By the way, just because we are getting Heth out of the way, don't think that we love the Gallente now. You are still our enemies, and, personally, I think the Gallente are worse as friends.
Nobody is expecting you to love us. But it was Heth and his crazed supporters that were actively trying to slow the agreement that will finally end Caldari Prime as a source of conflict. I think it is because most Caldari see things as equal now. We had our prior leaders that did stupid and horrific things that led to the horrific war. You had Heth that held Caldari Prime hostage and ordered its near destruction.
So while I do not see an alliance like we had with the Republic anytime soon. I do believe Federation-Caldari relations will improve if both sides continue to be willing to offer good faith to each other. |
Endeavour Starfleet
889
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Posted - 2013.06.18 13:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Typical Republic apologists. Attempting yet again to divert attention away from the real issues. The fact that the Republic considers its allies sovereignty to be optional and the continued insults towards our laws and justice system. |
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